Pastor Steve and his wife Brandi talk through a time where their marriage was being pushed to the limit. Hear their testimony through transparency, and be encouraged by how God watched over their marriage.
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TRANSCRIPT
INTRO
This is the BeLED Family podcast.
PASTOR STEVE
And her ability not to give up. I believe, is because of who God has made her to be, in that she has the gift of faith, and because Christ was always in her for her was never even a thought.
DANIEL
Welcome to BeLED Family Podcast, where we want to engage, equip and encourage you to be light, be entrusted, and be disciples through story and testimony. This week's contributors are Pastor Steve and his wife, Brandi. How are you two doing today?
PASTOR STEVE
Fantastic
DANIEL
Brandi?
BRANDI
Doing well.
DANIEL
I'll take fantastic. I'll take the way that Steve said fantastic over, well, no offense, but. Steve has been a pastor since 2017 and together they have nine children. They have been serving in a local congregation since 2022. I have known Steve and Brandi since our days at college at the Bible School in Plymouth, Minnesota in the late 90s. Hard to believe. That was like a long time ago. Let's not do the math, okay? And they have been dear friends ever since our paths have crossed here and there. And you guys even lived in the same community that I currently live in for a time?
BRANDI
Yep.
DANIEL
That was awesome. Okay, so welcome to this podcast. Now we're here to talk about marriages and how marriages are tested. We know that marriages endure a lot of things, there are joys, there are challenges. Your marriage has definitely faced some challenges. And we'll get to those in a minute. But, Steve, would you first share your heart on why both of you are willing to talk about this topic?
PASTOR STEVE
Yeah, we were, when you asked us, we were excited about it. But then, you know, as we spend some time thinking, we were questioning whether we're the right ones, you know, to do this. And that's because, you know, our marriage isn't, isn't perfect. But I think one of the things that I get frustrated with in mainstream Christianity is that it's always as if Christians have to present themselves perfect. Or everything looks so great. And, in some ways, I think we do that because we think that because Christ makes a difference, that we always need to look perfect. We always need to look like we've got it all together. We always have to have this “Facebook Falsity” or nicety that everything is, is great. And the truth is that life isn't always like that.
DANIEL
RIght.
PASTOR STEVE
That we're a mess a lot of the time. Marriages aren't perfect. There is no perfect marriage. And so, we're okay with doing this because we want to be transparent. We want people to recognize that when they're a Christian and they have Christ, and Christ gets us through, that it's okay when we say, you know what? Things aren't going well and it's okay when we don't have it all together. And in fact, you know, Christ bringing us to the cross, that's part of it. Recognizing that we need him consistently. So that's why we are able to come together and because even now, you know, our marriage isn't perfect, and so, but we want people to recognize the One who is perfect.
DANIEL
Thank you both for coming on and being willing to talk about how your marriage has had challenges. Would you share one of those challenges, a couple those challenges, what they were and how they became a challenge?
PASTOR STEVE
So some of the things that we've struggled with, one of the things that started off kind of early, it was… Weston was still yet a child, he's our third oldest, and so, he's turned 18 now. So this is a struggle that we've had off and on over 18 years of our marriage is a video game addiction for myself. And so when a video game…what that looks like in our marriage is that I pour myself into these video games, they're online role playing games. And so I would spend 40 hours a week just on video games, you know, and then I'd go to work full time. And so when I'm home, I was completely unplugged. I was not participating in things, you know you…I even have pictures where Brandi is taking pictures of the kids and there I am in the background, in the corner on the computer playing video games. And so that was a big thing that was a trial in our marriage. And I know that that has been a big issue for Brandi, too.
DANIEL
You said that that led to very addictive-like behaviors.
PASTOR STEVE
Yeah. Addictive like behaviors.
DANIEL
What were some of those behaviors?
PASTOR STEVE
Yeah, so some of the things would be, you're pouring yourself into that and you don't want to call it a problem. So I don't see it as a, I didn't see it as a problem. And if Brandi would try to bring it up to talk about, I would instantly get enraged, like I would instantly lose my temper. I would make excuses for the behavior. I would ignore the effect that it had on my children. And the truth is that my children could see the problem, my wife could see the problem, and I couldn't see the problem until after I was through that kind of addictive cycle, so to speak. So I would go through these periods of time. I'd be playing for six months, then I would, then I would see the problem. I would almost repent of the problem. I'd come back to reality. I'd come back to the family. I'd be a father and a husband again. And that would happen for maybe six months, maybe a year. And maybe it was centered around a time of stress, right? that I would go back, and when it would happen, sometimes I could feel it coming on. My wife could even see that it was happening before I would. That it was going, that this cycle was going to take place. And then I would go back into that addictive behavior, and it almost became a cycle that was…I couldn't control it. It was almost as if I couldn't stop it from happening, and I had to go through the cycle in order for it to end. And it was very debilitating for myself.
DANIEL
That's the nature of an addiction, isn't it? Just…
PASTOR STEVE
Absolutely.
DANIEL
So, Brandi, what was your response to Steve and this addiction that he had?
BRANDI
Well, early on I felt very betrayed. I was angry, always angry. I felt like I was a single mom, like, a lot of the time, actually. And I felt like it wasn't. I guess I just felt like it wasn't what I signed up for.
DANIEL
Yeah.
BRANDI
When I got married, I didn't sign up for this. This was a new thing. It was…I felt like, you know, I was lied to. But as…Go ahead.
PASTOR STEVE
I, during that time, I'm a different person, right? And so the person that she fell in love with, she's looking and she's seeing somebody else and so that's not the person that I married, you know, and not to speak for you, but that's, you know, kind of what I think she's talking about and experiencing, and so I think that a lot of marriages go through that. Right? A lot of marriages, they look around at the trial that they're in, and this is not what I thought marriage was going to be. This is not what I thought my life was going to be. This is not where I thought I was, you know? And when you talk with people who are going through divorce or going through trials, this is not where I was hoping to be when I said I wanted to start my life with you.
DANIEL
Now Brandi, you had said that during that time you had people speaking things to you. They were telling you…
BRANDI
Yes, they were. They said, why are you staying with him? You know, that you could divorce him. You could go have a better life for your family. You have to think about your kids. Like, that's really like a lot of different people and Christians and coworkers saying different things, and I, I just was like, no, no, I never, ever felt like divorce was an option. And I knew that there was a bigger picture. Yeah, I guess you could say.
DANIEL
Right. Yeah. Okay. So in that through the challenge, the addiction and that, that can infiltrate any marriage, any person. And I know that on the BeLED Family Podcast, we're going to talk about addictions later on. At some point here. We're working on some stuff there. But what helped you guys move past those addictions? What helped you get to the point where…Steve, you weren't yourself? You said that, you admitted, that wasn't me. Brandi, you’re getting people that tell you, leave the guy, you have grounds for divorce. I mean, what would you say? How did you guys get through that?
PASTOR STEVE
Yeah, for me, I really believe, in all honesty, the reason that we're still married is because my wife gave. She constantly gave. So if I said we're moving and my attitude would be, instead of let's figure this out together, and waiting for God to lead us together, it was me saying, this is what we're going to do. And if you want to be married to me, then you're just going to do it. You know, in a sense, do what I say or what I do. And if you don't like it, oh well, tough luck. And so during those times, Brandi would give and she would give, and then she would give. And I don't know, obviously I do know it was Christ in her, obviously. But there were people that I know that have been divorced over less. I know that there are people who have given up for less. And it seems that that happens a lot in marriages where if they work, it's because one person is giving when the other person isn't and they continue to give. And sometimes that's difficult, but that's why we're still together. Because Brandi never gave up, and her ability not to give up, I believe, is because of who God has made her to be, in that she has the gift of faith. And because Christ was always in her, for her it was never even a thought to give up. It was never thought to get a divorce. And so in that way, she would always give. And eventually God would bring me to a place where I would catch up, or I would recognize that I need to be the one who's giving. But for a period of time, for a season, for years, it was my wife who was giving more than what I was giving.
DANIEL
Brandi, how do you respond to that? I mean, what's your thought process with that?
BRANDI
Oh, I feel like it's so weird to hear him talk about me like that, because I feel like it is just who I am. I do believe wholeheartedly that the Lord is in control. I always feel he is with me. I have held strong and tight to my confirmation verse, which is Hebrews 13:5, “never will I leave you and never will I forsake you.” And I always felt, in the happy, and in the sad, and in the joyous, in every situation, the Lord was right there with me and I just never felt like he wasn't. I felt like I had everything I needed and whether or not my husband was failing me as a husband, as a person, as a friend, I had to learn.
DANIEL
Was there something practical you were doing? Because, yes. What you're saying is obviously true, and it helped you and Steve. No offense, but you were undeserved of what Brandi was doing. You were undeserved of her faithfulness. Was there something, Brandi, practically you were doing that helped you keep faithful to the Lord? Help you stick to that verse where God says, I will never leave you. I'm with you. Was there something you were doing practically that would be encouraging to listeners?
BRANDI
Yes. I surrounded myself with people who encouraged me. Encouraged me in my walk, not just encouraged me to stay with Steve or encouraged me that I'm a good mom or whatever, whatever it could be. Just encouraged me. They didn't judge me. I talked very openly and with different people and.
DANIEL
People you trusted.
BRANDI
Very much so. I was very transparent, and I felt like that if I wasn't transparent, then I wasn't me. And so I felt like I had to just speak it out, and then they would know. And then they would be able to pray for me, and they’d be able to pray with me. And, so they bore my burdens. I also stayed in the Word all the time. And I know that sounds like such a, such a Christiany thing to say, you know? But I really did. You have to stay in the Word. And you…and I not only stayed in the Word, but I studied who God was, and in turn, knowing who I was. So, and then probably one of my number one things is listening to praise and worship music, praising the Lord constantly. I would have praise and worship music playing all the time, constantly looking for songs that just spoke to me and sometimes even spoke to me more than the Word of God. If that's yeah, if that makes sense. Right? Yeah. And so I really, I just…it really speaks to my heart. It's…my heart language is praise and worship music, and so I would do that and pray lots and lots of prayer and tears. I cried, I cried, my emotions were there, but, surrounded myself with beautiful, wonderful people that encouraged me in my marriage.
PASTOR STEVE
One of the things that I think is important that is spoken of too, is that during those times, Brandi never badmouthed me. Right. She never talked about me negatively. So she was able to meet with people and to tell them her struggles. But Brandi always defended me. She didn't defend my actions. She didn't say that what I was doing was okay, but she always defended me. And she never…I never felt disrespected. And so in that way, I wasn't loving like I should be loving. But Brandi never stopped treating me with respect, which I needed to move forward. And in that way, that's part of the giving that she gave all the time. It wasn't just that she was enduring situations, but that she was defending me and my character, which she knew, and I loved Christ. I was saved, but I just, sometimes my heart is in the wrong, was in the wrong place, and it was being stolen in other places, and I was giving it to the wrong things. And so Brandi was still defending me, though she knew the things that I was doing was wrong, and, and, you know, so, and Brandi does that with everybody, like, right now, you don't, you better not be talking about her kids. Mother grizzly bear comes out. So I appreciated that about her. And I want her to be honored in that, too. Is, as we discussed this, that she wasn't just faithful to God. She wasn't just faithful to me in the fact that she endured. But in that enduring, she defended, you know, and so I never…she never spoke harshly of me. She never spoke badly when she's getting with her friends and she's talking to those that she’s trusting, she's literally talking about, “what can I do? Can you pray for me?” And it wasn't, you know, he's a scoundrel. It was, you know, from the point of trying to keep us together. What can I do?
DANIEL
Now, people who are listening, they're going to wonder, you know, how do you keep giving and giving? How do you keep pouring grace upon someone who is undeserved? I mean, that's what the Lord does for us. He gives us grace when we don't deserve it, you know, how do you stay intent on marriage and stay faithful? I mean, the things that both of you are talking about. This isn't a knock on you, Steve, and it's not a praise on you, Brandi, but just God designed this marriage for you guys. When you were going to go through this trial, it could have been reversed, right? But for one of you to be intent, and that was you, Brandi, who just like, faithful to the Lord, faithful to this marriage, they're going to wonder, is there a secret sauce? Is there something that we're missing in our marriage? Brandi, how did you? You've talked a little bit about it already, but how did you stay so faithful to the Lord and to Steve?
BRANDI
I think that the Lord created me to have a short term memory. And so, even though the day-to-day, every day we were going through the same thing. I still felt like there was going…there was an end in sight, and I knew that the Lord had a plan. I didn't know when it would be, and I didn't know what, you know, what would have to happen to have that happen. But I knew that he had a plan and that this was just one season. And if I could just get through this season, then there's brighter things to come. And so I did feel like most of the time that was how I could get through it. And I also think that I forgive easily, and I would…I know that's, I forgive. I wouldn't say I forget, but I definitely forgive and I can move on. And I know that that is only by the grace of God that he has instilled that in me, you know? And I do feel like Christ all. Oh, and it is so, so strange to say like, oh, it's just Christ, but it really is Jesus Christ.
DANIEL
So obviously you're being faithful to this, Steve. Your, your, your addiction is taking over your life at this point. Something's got to break. There has to be a turning point. There's got to be something. Now, you, Steve, I know that there's a very dark moment in your life that took place to help that turning point. Would you be willing to share? Yeah, with our listeners what that was and how things started to pivot after that.
PASTOR STEVE
So most of my Christian life, and I was saved, I believed in Jesus, I know that he changed me, but a lot of my life, even as a Christian, was trying to be identified by the things that I did. By my job, by my occupation. And I struggled with depression greatly. And there's different reasons for that. And some of it's chemical and I needed medication and, and all these things, but nothing was seeming to work. And when I found that the occupation that I had poured myself into wasn't going to be the thing that I, the outcome that I had hoped for, I was going to sacrifice more than I wanted. I looked around and I felt like I didn't have anything. I was in a very, very dark place. And all of these things, the addiction, the addictive behaviors, not placing my trust in my identity in Christ and in the gospel, led to me deciding to try to take my life. And so in, in the darkest hours of my life, I, I tried to commit suicide. And, and I suppose that that's a whole podcast in and of itself. But I lived, and that was a miracle. An absolute miracle that I lived. And coming outside of that, coming on the other side, I would walk through that valley again because of who I am today on the other side. What Christ had to do in me through this event in my life to make me a better father, to make me a better husband, to make me be able to be prepared to be a pastor even. God used all this darkness for his glory. And on the other side now, as I come through that other side, healing and the identity, learning that who I am is who Christ claims me to be.
DANIEL
Brandi, how did you respond to that?
BRANDI
To his suicide attempt? Yeah. I think it's so strange. Like, I think back and it's been 15 years in August, we'll be 15 years. And I think there's just so many things that were happening. We had young children, so and I was working full time, and I think I just absorbed myself into I have these children and I need to still be there for them, even if my husband is in the ICU for several days and, I had a pastor tell me one time that I could not control the things that Steve was going to do and, that I had to trust that the Lord can see me through it. And so I just trusted in the Lord that he knew what was happening. I couldn't change what had happened. And then also at the same time, looking back now, several years later, 15 years now, I feel that I would do it all over again, which is so strange. It's such a weird thing to say.
DANIEL
But it makes sense in relation to how God has built you, Brandi. That you would say that.
BRANDI
I would. I would live through it again. Now I wouldn’t, I don't want to.
DANIEL
Right, right, right.
BRANDI
But, Yeah it, he is a completely a different person than what he was before his suicide attempt. And in not saying that he hasn't still had the same struggles, like video gaming every once in a while, you know, over these past 15 years. But you know, he is a different person. And I can just live knowing that the Lord was there the entire time with us. He's there now. He is here. And I just keep looking to him for what is to come.
PASTOR STEVE
So one of the things that happened following that is my family before the suicide attempt was something that happened while I was trying to do life. After my suicide attempt, I recognized them as the precious thing that Christ had given me. And, the love that I had for my wife and for my children after what they meant to me, was completely different. And so one of the things that I began to do was to honor Brandi and her opinion. And we began, as I felt the call to seminary, we began to talk about that. And from that point on, any decisions that we've made in our family, any decisions we've made for our family, we have to be on the same page. And so if we're not on the same page anymore, I know immediately that there's a problem. I believe that God leads collectively. I think that sometimes he can inspire one person, but…So for us, if we're not on the same page, at this point, I don't argue with her. I don't ask her. We may discuss why, but I don't question it and I don't, I don't go, well, you must be wrong. You need to reexamine yourself. I allow that to be. And even in the call process, as a pastor, when we have to decide if we're going to go somewhere else. Not only do I trust in Brandi, but I bring my children in. And I bring them into it and allow them to pray and to speak, because I believe that God leads us together as a family. And in that then I'm honoring God by honoring them. And my role as a husband is to lead them. But just like a pastor's role is to serve the congregation and to be a servant leader, the same thing is true in my, in my marriage and in my family. And so I need to be bold, I need to be confident, and I need to be manly, whatever that means. But really, what that means is it means I need to die. I need to die to me, and I need to die every day so that I can live with Christ and Christ through me for them. And so in that way too, that whole aspect changed and that changed the trajectory for our entire family then and it's future. And that's where we find ourselves today.
DANIEL
Praise the Lord for what you guys did in your marriage, the testament that you went through, praise the Lord that you guys can sit here today with us and talk about these things, recognizing God's faithfulness and how God has used this testing in your marriage to make you stronger. In Him, as parents, as a married couple. Praise the Lord for that. And, you know, obviously not every couple needs to go through what you two have gone through. And you said it well, Brandi, that, you know, would you go through it again? Yeah. You would, you wouldn't choose to do that, but would you? Yes, absolutely. Praise the Lord that he used that dark time to bring you to where you are now. Hopefully and thankfully, God doesn't…that not everyone has to go through that dark of a time of suicide attempt or addiction, praise the Lord that some couples actually probably have to go even further down that dark weed. But my question for you is this. You know, what encouragement do you have for couples who are struggling, who are facing a time of testing? There's been a lot of great nuggets that you guys have already shared so far, but kind of wrap that up. Like, what encouragement do you have for couples who are struggling?
PASTOR STEVE
We were going to Hope Lutheran in Minneapolis while we were in seminary and, and give a shout out to Bev Enderline. So I remember speaking with her one day, and one of the things that she said to me, she said, sometimes Christians need to die to the idea of being right.
DANIEL
Read, say that again.
PASTOR STEVE
Yeah, you. We as Christians, we need to die to the idea of being right. And when you think about that in relation to Christ, Christ was the most right person there was and yet never exacted his rightness. He never made sure when somebody was wrong, that they knew that they were wrong, and that he was right and put that over. Rather, he emptied himself, not thinking, having something to be grasped right. And so, that would be the first thing that I would talk about is that, you know, when as Christians, sometimes we need to die to the idea of being right. And then I wanted to share a passage of Scripture here from Hebrews. I often have this one that comes up because for me, it's, it's significant. So but, from Hebrews, chapter 12, most of us know verse one and two really well, but following that from verse three and four, it says this: For consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Verse four: You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin. And that's kind of twofold. Number one, we recognize that I'm not bleeding so I can keep going. I didn't die on the cross. Look how far Christ fought for me and is fighting, is fighting by living for me now. I can go further, but also to recognize I don't have to die. I don't have to bleed in the same way that Christ did, because Christ did that for me. So what I do need to do is I die to myself and I try to live for Christ and for my family, and so I can continue to do that. When I think I've got nothing left. When I feel like I've given and I've given and I've got nothing left. I can realize, and I read this verse every time I read it, I feel like, guess what? I'm still not bleeding. And so I know I can do more and I can do more because Christ is the one who is in me. So.
DANIEL
Well, that's really good. You know, before we get to our final question here, I just want to remind our listeners that you make sure to subscribe to the BeLED Family Podcast. Hopefully you've been blessed by this conversation with Steve and Brandi. Hopefully you find something that they have said just really encouraging. Or maybe there's something they've said that you know, another couple who needs to hear this. Share this episode with them. Take time to do that. Help BeLED get great content like this out and help other people and subscribe because we're going to have in the next few weeks. Other podcasts related specifically to marriages. We had one previously just on divorce and a couple more coming up here on marriages and other things, topics, talking about parenting and things like that. So, follow BeLED on Facebook and Instagram. And like I said, take time to share this episode. Our last question for you, Steve and Brandi. Again, thank you for being so gracious with your time and your willingness to be transparent. That's something I appreciate about this and the conversations we had before we recorded this. You guys wanted to be transparent, open and honest. And I think that's a key in tested marriages is and you've alluded to that, Steve, making sure that you're very honest with each other, transparent. And that's something that probably most marriages don't have. And so I appreciate that so much. Our last question is this, how do you see God glorified for the times that your marriage was being tested?
PASTOR STEVE
So when we…we were pondering this question on the way in as we drove in and one of the things that we really wanted, I guess, to bring to the attention is that when we were in our marriage, it was never, these trials and these things were never something that we viewed as something that was trying our marriage. They were trying us. We were always together, fighting something together. One of us may have been wounded and lying on the ground, and the other one was dragging the other one for a long period of time. And that one wasn't usually me. I was the one usually being dragged, and carried, by Brandi and her selflessness. But in that way, it was never that our marriage was being tested. It wasn't something individually that we felt like was attacking our marriage, but it was attacking us. And we were in it together, doing life together. And in that way, you don't just give up on a marriage, right? Because the other person is the person you're doing life with. So when you're giving up on a marriage then, then possibly, maybe, you're recognizing that you're giving up on the person. And for us, the person that we were trying to follow, whether we were doing it well or not, was always Christ. And in that way, Christ never, never gave up on us, not once. I gave up on Christ many times. I questioned him and my faith was weak. Brandi of faith was constant. She always placed her faith in that. And so in that way, Christ always showed up in every place. And maybe it wasn't the way we wanted to see it, but he was always there. He was always consistent. And so in that way, I don't know how to answer one way specifically, but as a whole, what we see is that we are together, and in that Christ is glorified because it's evidence that he's real, that he makes a difference, and that life in Christ, the fact that Christ is alive right now and that he is living and that he is active, we can attest to that simply because we are continuing to be married. He's the one who's still leading. And maybe, you know, I'm giving a lot of glory to Brandi in carrying me, but maybe it was that Christ was dragging two dead bodies for a while, you know? But in any case, he's glorified in that because he was always faithful consistently, even in our weakest.
DANIEL
Wow. That's great. Well spoken. Hopefully, you know, if you're in a marriage, your marriage is…you feel like you're kind of at the point, be encouraged that God is faithful. Go to him, be transparent, be open. And Steve and Brandi are living testimonies that you'll, you'll be okay. Will not be easy. Will be okay.
PASTOR STEVE
It doesn't always have to look okay. But that doesn't mean I'm not okay. I mean, yeah.
DANIEL
Thank you both for being transparent, for being honest. And your willingness to come and talk about this. Thank you Steve. Thank you Brandi.
BRANDI
Thank you.
PASTOR STEVE
Thanks for having us.
DANIEL
Thank you for listening to this week's BeLED Family Podcast episode. We appreciate you taking the time to tune in. Help us by sharing this podcast with your friends. Support the BeLED Podcast and BeLED Family by visiting us at our website: beledfamily.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Until the next episode BeLED in all that you do.
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