BeLED Family Podcast Host Daniel Keinanen and contributor Matt Swigart give testimony to the faith legacy of their respective dads. Each share their story of losing their dad, and how they processed that loss. Their prayer is this would be an encouraging conversation that will point you to Jesus.
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TRANSCRIPT
INTRO
This is the BeLED Family Podcast.
MATT
And then the moment that his chest hit Jesus in that incredible hug, you know, knocked the last bit of wind out of his earthly body and into his heavenly body.
DANIEL
Welcome to the BeLED Family Podcast. My name is Daniel. Thank you for taking time to listen to this episode. This is a unique episode. I'm here with my friend Matt Swigart. He was on a previous podcast episode talking about Rites of Passage. Encourage you to listen to that. That was a fantastic conversation I had with Matt a while ago. Matt and I, we've known each other for quite a while. We've shared different ministry circles. He actually grew up in the area, close to the area where I live. So it's nice to rag each other about his high school football team that are usually… The local high school team I cheer for usually dominates, but we're not–that's not what this podcast is about, talking about high school football. On a much different note, we're here to talk about our dads. And Matt and I, we knew each other, but then he lost his father. What year did you lose your dad?
MATT
DANIEL
MATT
Yeah, my dad. I got a phone call. 4th of July, 2018. I was speaking at a camp, and got the call that you don't want saying, he just got diagnosed with stage four liver cancer. And so we had a seven month journey that there was never really a moment that things got better. And so it was just kind of a slow seven month fade. And then he finally passed away on February 25th, 2019. And, you know, kind of a cool quick story in this though is I remember I think it was my sister started this, but, you know, my dad and I would talk about [how] we just want it to be clear when it's time to stop fighting and to start ending. And my sister somewhere in that season made the comment, “Hey, dad, when you see Jesus start running.”
DANIEL
Yeah.
MATT
And, you know, kind of this don't fight, don't suffer. We're fine. You know.
DANIEL
Right.
MATT
And what's on the other side of that is going to be worth it. And so, the moment of his death was really a profound experience. It was my mom and I and the hospice nurse, and he had gone dark for three days, just kind of there but not, and it was my mom and I caring for him. So I would say there's some level of maybe trauma that I'm still processing five years later of what that is like, you know, the process of dying. But my dad that morning, the hospice nurse was there, and she's like, you guys should come in here. And his breathing was accelerated. And, you know, we hadn't seen his eyes.
MATT
And, you know, a couple days and all of a sudden, my mom grabbed the rocking chair and sat at next to the bed. And thankfully, we had him facing out, and she was just like, grabbed his hand, was stroking his hand, and all of a sudden his eyes shot open, and he looked at mom, and my mom just yelled, “Roger, do you see him? Go, run, and don't look back, and just, you know, run, run.” And I'm standing in the doorway. I actually took my hat off. I'm like, “Man, this is a holy moment,” you know? And dad's eyes kind of lifted up over my mom, and as my mom's, like, cheering him across the finish line, probably 4 or 5 breaths later, he stopped breathing, and we believe that he did what we encouraged him to, that he said he would. And then the moment that his chest hit Jesus in that incredible hug, you know, knocked the last bit of wind out of his earthly body and into his heavenly body, and just an incredible moment.
MATT
And even for me personally, you know, still, you know, obviously grieving and feeling the loss, but, man, what a gift to actually witness my hero sprint across the finish line. And what a picture of what marriage should be like. You know, one cheering the other across the line into the arms of Jesus, you know. And so just a crazy, sad, tough, and he was only 63 years old, so too young, but a real gift. And talking about legacy and what's getting passed off to kids, you know, like, I received something from him in the moment of losing him that.
DANIEL
I remember the first time you told me that story. We were at a restaurant in the Mall of America, and both of us were trying to eat, but we were both just weeping our eyes out. I love that story. You know, my dad, it was the fall of 2019, and my mom calls me and says, “Dad, he…can you come pick me up and bring me to the middle school because he just…” He was a substitute teacher, retired substitute teacher. And she said, “Can you pick me up? They said, dad just fainted,” so, “Yeah, I'll come pick you up,” and went up to the…I actually had my oldest son with me, and so he came with and we went up to the school, and he was standing up. The paramedics were there, the principals there, and they were like, you know, he's ready to teach again. And the principal says, “Well, we have a policy here that, you know, if a teacher passes out, probably shouldn't teach, right?”
DANIEL
So we bring him to urgent care and then they at the clinic, and then they send him down to the hospital and within a few hours, you know, find out he's got a brain tumor, glioblastoma. And I'll never forget seeing on the screen, the CT scan and how astronomically large it was on his brain. And then that moment I saw that, I thought, “Oh, this is it. This is the beginning of the end.” And this brain surgeon at the hospital, you know, he's nationally known as a good brain surgeon. I'll never forget it. He said to us, “Listen, I'm good at what I do, but I can't help him. It's that far gone.” And so in that fall and then he passed away in June of 2020.
DANIEL
A Thursday morning he passed is similar to you, Matt, where, you know, it's my sisters, my mom and I, and the nurse, the hospice nurse. We're just praying, like, “Well go.” You know, we didn't have quite the same experience as you and your mom did, but just go. But at the moment he did take his final breath, and it was interesting, the hospice director came. He just felt compelled to come. And then he brought this retired military person and he prayed this beautiful military prayer over my dad. And it wasn't much longer after that, you know, they left the house and it wasn't much longer after that that dad took his last breath and I thought, “Wow, Lord, you had a plan. As much as we wanted him to go, you had a plan even for that last prayer to be prayed over him.”
DANIEL
But nothing, nothing, I don't know for you, Matt talk about this, you know, that moment he passed. Nothing could have prepared me for that moment. Even though you're praying, you're saying, run to Jesus and just take him home. When that moment comes, that's a difficult moment too. It cannot be described. There is no right nor wrong way to respond to that. There just isn't. What was it like for you? What was that moment for you in the days and weeks after your dad had passed?
MATT
Yeah, yeah, I know, I've got another friend that his dad was right around the time of your dad, and their story was dad was over last night hanging out, playing with the kids. And then the next day, he drops dead in the driveway and just, you know. And so, for me, like, I had to say goodbye a lot. And I cried a lot in those seven months. And then I've talked to a number of people, you know, over the years now since then.
MATT
And I always just say, you know, there's a level of grief that is not unlocked until it actually happens. And I was laughing the night before with my mom, just like, you know, for all this time, I've been praying, “God, heal him. I know you can.” You know, and I believe in a big God, and I believe that my dad won, right? So it was a prayer for me. But heal him. But then it got to the point where it's like, “God, why is he still here?” You know, like, he's just. There's nothing. “Why is his body still? Why is his heart still beating?” You know, like “It's okay. Take him.”
MATT
And we were kind of laughing about that a little bit, but, boy, yeah, the moment happened, and I, you know, it was just standing there, and I've actually never been around it, like, a freshly dead body before. So it was kind of, you know, interesting. But my mom, it was really interesting, she, like, she took his wedding ring off, kissed him on the forehead, and left the room, and closed the doors. And then I'm like, “Oh, what am I supposed to do here?” You know, but it was a pretty intense moment. You know, just that final, that final kind of goodbye. Like, there it happened, and, you know, it unlocked kind of that next level, you know, talking like video games or whatever. Like it just, yeah, you can't prepare for that. And it doesn't matter how many tears you cried leading up to that moment, it's a new level.
DANIEL
So at this new level, Matt, and I'll talk about it too, but what was the next few days like for you?
MATT
Well, what was challenging was, you know, they didn't have any plans made. And so, you know, well, actually, I had a friend who had lost his dad a number of years ago. He was much older than me, so it was a long time ago. But he encouraged me if I was there, for me to be the person to meet the coroner and help get his body out. And so I did that. And so my mom was in another room with the door closed. And so I helped do that. And obviously that's, you know, another series of pictures that I'd maybe prefer not to have, but how I'm wired, I'm glad it was me. And not my mom. Not my sister. You know, I'm glad that I could do that. But that was hard.
MATT
And then the next day, we had to go meet with the funeral home and he wanted to be cremated. So we had to pick out the box he was going to be, you know, all that sort of stuff. And, and so I would say, like, as a gift to your kids or talk to your parents about maybe making those plans in advance. Because that was really tough.
MATT
And then, I kind of took the lead working with the pastor at their church and planning out the funeral service. And I know for me, I said, my brother was going to do the eulogy. There were a couple people who were going to share, but I said, “I got the ball. I'm sharing the gospel and closing this thing,” you know. And I know that that's not for everybody, but like, actually, I had a note on my phone that I started early on in that journey that I just started jotting down notes of things my dad said, and so my dad ended up writing most of his funeral message.
DANIEL
Wow.
MATT
Because I just took all the things he said, you know, things like, you know, “People might celebrate things that I did, but it's not about me. It's about Jesus,” or things like, “I don't take myself too seriously. I take my relationship with Jesus seriously, but not myself,” you know? So things like that. But I was writing that message, and then actually, I was laying in my office just on the couch, just kind of like processing, right? And I was tired, up all night for three nights. You know, it was a lot, but, just listening to worship music in the song Forever Reign, the, “Oh, I run into your arms, I run into your arms.” And I'm like, “What?” And I called the pastor and I said, “We need to get this song in the service.”
MATT
Because now it's, It took me probably over a year to even be able to sing that song, because of how profound that was, you know? But it was beautiful. And so it was a lot like dealing with the emotions and trying to, serve my family through it. My wife and my kids, my mom, my sister, her family, my brother, trying to serve them well and be a support to them as much as I could while I'm processing it myself. And so it was, it was a lot. I wish that I could have just gone and taken a walk, or gotten away for a couple of days just by myself, but it was one of those like, time to step up.
DANIEL
Right?
MATT
You know, for the family.
DANIEL
After my dad died, it was like I said, it was that Thursday. The following Sunday was Father's Day, and our pastor usually takes his family on vacation during Father's Day. It's kind of like the rite, almost like a rites of passage thing that they do on Father's Day. So I was always scheduled to preach in the church I served, and somebody asked me, he's like, “We’ll, we'll cover it, we'll figure it out.” And I said, “No, no, no, no, no, we're going to, we're going to do this.”
MATT
I remember that.
DANIEL
Yeah. And because it was 2022, we didn't do a funeral right away. We did a burial obviously pretty quick up where he grew up. And we did a memorial service later, which you came, you were a part of that. But I remember thinking, just like, similar to maybe how your mom just, like, took off the ring, kissed his forehead, closed the door. It's almost like a just like, “Okay, season's over, move on.” Not to be ignorant or cold hearted about it, but it's like if I just keep dwelling on this, his memory isn't going away. Those are locked in. Who he was, and that's not going away. But I also need to keep moving forward. And that's I don't know if that's the best.
DANIEL
I can't remember all the emotions I went through over the next few weeks and days after that. But I feel like in a time of loss, it's, I'll be careful what I say, but it's almost too easy to kind of just sit in that clay for too long. To just, you know, kind of mourn yourself, and feel sorry for yourself, that you just lost your dad, your mom, or whomever it might be. And when I hear people talk about dealing with grief, you know, they say you still have to move on. You still have to keep moving forward. And it's almost cold hearted to think that way.
DANIEL
You know, I had a conversation with somebody just recently. You know, they had a grandchild who passed, and the day their grandchild passed, they're driving around and their like seeing people laugh in the street. And she was saying, “How dare you. Do not know that my grandson just passed away? How dare you enjoy life?” And then she realized, “Well, that's just selfish. I mean, we need to keep moving forward.”
DANIEL
So I guess the next section I want to talk about, Matt, is just, you know, I don't want to get too deep into the weeds because you and I could go for hours talking about this, but, you know, how do we, as you and I? We're different. We're similar in how we. Our stories are also crazy similar, too, how the whole process. And that's another story for another time. But, you know, as we think about processing death, that's really what we want to get at here in this podcast. Just, what encouragement do we have for our listeners when it comes to just processing something that there is no training on. There is no one way to do it. There's no right way or wrong way. But are there principles, Christian principles that can be applied when we process the loss of a loved one?
MATT
I mean, one of the questions I ask friends who have recently lost a loved one is, “How does worship hit differently?” And for me, I grew up in a pretty, you know, conservative church. Like, I can't say that I ever, maybe outside of my weeks at camp, I ever really worshiped, you know, from in singing, but, man, I tell you what, even to this day, five and a half years later, but especially early on, singing songs that are celebrating the cross, celebrating the hope that we have in eternity, talking about things like we will be doing it, and then thinking my dad is actually doing that. And it just, it, boy, it's been incredible, like so good.
MATT
And I almost feel bad saying that. But I think that's one of the benefits as a follower of Jesus who was confident in the goodness of God that, you know, and I don't like it really, when Christians talk about, “Oh, God works all things for the good.” It's true, but sometimes it's like this “get out of jail free card” that they say, but it's like, “Truly, Lord, I want to see the good.” And one of the ways for me was worship. And just like, really actually paying attention to the words that we're singing, right? That's been a huge piece for me of journeying through grief. I will say, though, that, you know, I'm with you in the “you gotta move forward.” But whoever said time heals all wounds is full of, you know what.
DANIEL
Yep, yep.
MATT
No. Like. No. It took a long time. Like, I don't have a cry just under the surface like I used to, but I still, I'm still, it's five and a half years later, I'm still there. I remember having lunch not too long after with a guy who was one of my volunteer leaders in my student ministry, and he was much older than me, and I was telling him about my dad and all this stuff, and he had lost his dad when he was younger than me. But he's sitting across the table at Chipotle with tears running down his cheek. And his name's Roger, too, actually, which was funny, but I was like, “Roger, you crying right now is a bad sign, you know, like how much you're feeling this.” You know, it shows like it's almost never going to go away. It has, it has softened, but still it's incredibly difficult. And I think that's just part of it. And maybe that's the benefit of having a great relationship with our dads.
DANIEL
Do you think, Matt, it's that some people struggle with the loss of life because they're looking for something that doesn't exist, aka healing? You know, maybe the type of healing that God wants to bring. You know, our definition of what healing is might not be what God's is. Because you said it's been five and a half years. I mean, just the other day had a friend who lost his dad and I was in the middle of a store, and it just destroyed me. It wrecked me and I've never met this, my friend's dad, but it destroyed me, and I thought, “Is there a part of me that's not over the loss of my dad?” And I thought, “Well, whether I'm over it or not, I don't, it doesn't matter to me. It just, it's always going to be a part of me.
DANIEL
I have another friend who lost her dad decades ago, and every Father's Day still just a mess for her. And I text her every Father's Day and say, “Happy Father's Day. May the memory of our dads always live forever,” right? And maybe sometimes some people can't move on because they're looking for something that doesn't exist, healing or whatever. Instead of just going, worship the Lord, move on. Focus on the Lord, focus on me, and know that there going to be moments that are still going to wreck you.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
There's still going to be times where you are going to…and that's okay. Have you seen, Matt, people who have been, you know, you said, you know, the cliche statement, time heals all wounds. I'm not a believer of that, I'm just not. I think time delays what you need to deal with.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
And so, you know how? Maybe that's the question. How do we encourage people to deal with the loss? How do we encourage people to, I don't know, I've asked you so many different questions.
MATT
Yeah. Well I think the thought that I've got is that people need to hear that it's okay.
DANIEL
Yeah.
MATT
What you're feeling right now is okay, but to always like check your emotions through the lens of your faith in a good God.
DANIEL
Yeah.
MATT
And, because I'll confess, there are times where, as I'm reminded or I think about my dad. My son just graduated high school, right? So there was an empty chair at the grad party. I'm told there might be a conversation with the young man coming with my oldest daughter, you know, and there will be an empty chair. An empty chair at that. And I confess that there are times that my emotional reaction is more anger. Like, I'm still angry that my dad's not going to be there and yet. Okay, I don't know why that's what I didn't choose that. But that's what I'm feeling right now and that's okay. But I always have to bring it back to the Lord. And just like, “You know what, again, my dad won.” You know, given the choice, dad's like, “Na I’ll pass on graduation and weddings. I'm in heaven.”
DANIEL
RIght.
MATT
You know, like, it's there. And so I think an affirmation that what you feel in the moment is okay, but you have to check it then against what does our faith or how does our faith inform how we need to think through that. And another thing I had a friend send me an email and it talked about the silk ring theory. And basically the silk ring theory is that when in grief, you, for your own personal grief, you are the center of the ring. And so you invite people into your ring who will receive from you what you need to give. Do you need to cry? Do you need to be angry? Do you need to laugh about the funny stories? Whatever it is. But if when those people like I came into your ring.
DANIEL
Yep.
MATT
With your dad. But there were things that happened as I was with you that kind of triggered me, but I can't in that moment. I can't make you a part of my ring. Like, it's my job when I come into your ring to receive. But if that triggers me, then I need to go create my own ring too, where I can process that with people.
MATT
And so kind of how that played out a lot for me too, is with my mom. Now I know my mom like wanted to care for me and stuff like that, but my mom’s ring, she was closer to my dad. It was an everyday thing for my mom, right? And so when I went in and was with my mom, I was there to receive, like I remember, for example, she texted me not too long. Like it just got to the point where she had to start cleaning stuff out and getting rid, and she said, “Do you want dad's golf clubs?” And it was I mean, it was like three weeks later and I was like, “There's no flipping way I want to be dealing with this right now,” you know? But because it was my job to receive from her. Yes, “I do want his golf clubs,” and those are my son's golf clubs now. I do want those golf clubs, but I had to then go process that with other friends because it was my job.
MATT
And so like to make sure that you're surrounding yourself with people who will, who will receive and not like… I was just up at a wedding in Fargo a couple weeks ago, a former tennis player of mine, her mom, passed away, and so my wife and I drove up and we were a part of that. And this same lady cut us off in line twice. Once with, Karen's dad and once with Karen, and oh, she was just blubbering and I saw both the husband of the wife who died and the daughter of the mom who died have to minister and care for this person. And I was like, that's the opposite of what should be happening right now, you know? But she just had to get it all out and things like that. And I think there's a piece to where, as you enter into this, like, you got to figure out who's going to be in your circle or who's going to come into that ring that will receive from you and care well for you and won't add to your grief.
DANIEL
I think for some of us, we stumble around, you know, going into instead of receiving. We kind of enter somebody's ring, trying to fix them, because that's sometimes in our nature. And you and I are similar, Matt, where when you enter that ring for me, you weren't trying to fix the situation you were offering, “I'm here. I'm with you.” That's the phrase that when I remember, soon after, we found out about my dad, you reached out and you used the phrase, “I'm with you.” And I've used that phrase ever since. You know, “I'm with you,” not, you know. Just to me, that signifies I'm sitting here with you. Whatever it is you need instead of trying to fix a situation. And I'm here. Oftentimes, we stumble around trying to say the cliche statements, trying to say the quote unquote right things. And sometimes, you and I are similar where we just, the right thing, saying the right thing at the wrong time is awful.
MATT
Yeah, yes.
DANIEL
It's just awful. Those things are true. Those things are right. But sometimes in those moments, you just need to hear, “This sucks. This stinks. This is awful. I'm sorry.” You know, it's sometimes you just need to. I don't have no words.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
I'll just sit with you.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
We'll share a meal at Cadillac Ranch, the Mall of America, and not doing a thing and help. Those are the people that I gravitate towards.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
Those people that just go, “I’m with you.”
MATT
Yeah. I know for me, there was, like you said, there are good things to say, “I'm so sorry” or “I'm praying for you” or “How's your mom?” That was one. And it was like some of my good friends are asking me how my mom's doing. And I'm like, “Well, thanks for that, but I'm hurting too.” Like, “But what are you too manly to, like, care for me or something?” And so yeah, the whole line like I'm sitting with you, I'm with you like I, it almost aggravated me. People who would just say that because I, and it wasn't anything personal, they were just trying to find something to say.
MATT
Yes.
MATT
But either like I'm sorry. Okay. That's. Thanks. Thank you. Talk to you later. I'm praying for you. Please don't say I'm praying for you to somebody. Like, if that's what you want to do. Because I think that's the greatest, most frequent lie Christians say. They say, “I'm praying for you,” but they never actually do. I would say, can I pray for you right now?
DANIEL
Yeah, yeah.
MATT
Put your stinkin’ arm around my shoulder and just say a prayer kind of in my ear. It doesn't have to be this huge long thing.
DANIEL
Nope.
MATT
But just care for me. And then same with like, yeah, thanks for caring for my mom. But, like, you're my friend. Like, you met my mom once or whatever, right? Like, no, it's okay. And I think there's a, I don’t know, this machismo, you know, something like that. Like it's uncomfortable to cry in front of anybody for me. But also at the same point, like somebody who's willing to just sit and get tears in their eyes as they're just, like, giving you a hug or praying for you or something like that, man, that ministered to me, the people that did that, that was.
DANIEL
To me, I mean it…I don't…we're not here to judge how people, you know, how people respond to death and how they're there for us. That's not what this is about. But I think the encouragement I would find for people who are dealing with that, if you have somebody who's lost someone recently, be as genuine as you possibly can. You know, we don't, we don't need superficial. I'm not, it's not that people who say that are superficial. Sometimes we just don't know what to do.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
And that's what I'm saying earlier. Like, you can go into it encouraging somebody who's dealing with loss. It's okay not to know what to do. It's okay to not know what to pray. It's okay to not know what to say, what's most important, just be there. Be present. Be intentional by putting your arm and saying a prayer. Even that prayer can be “Lord, we're praying. I don't even know what to say, Lord.”
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
“I'm just, I lift up my friend Matt to you this time of loss.” That's it. That's all I can do. I don't know what else to say because I, you know, sometimes you don't know what that person needs or is going through. Be intentional by just, more or less, just let people know you're there. I'm with you.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
I'm with you. You know, as we you know, again, you know, we could talk for a long time about this, but I guess our final question, Matt, is this. Long live, you know, the memories of our dads. We miss them, right? There's not a day that goes by, I don't think about him at some point. Some moments, it's a few seconds. Some moments, it's an hour. But there's not a day I don't think about it. And I, in some of when I'm able to speak in churches, I talk a lot about my dad and my mom, what they meant to me and my faith, right? And there's a few stories I talk about my dad that just usually gets to me. And oftentimes I prayed in the parenting seminars I've done, you know, I've at the end, I don't have this planned prayer, but I remember one church I was at and I said, “So let me pray for you guys.” And I said the first words that came my mouth were, I miss my dad, you know, and it just, still it goes on. But, you know, long live the memories of our dads. Thinking about the loss of our dads, Matt. What just one, two, three, I don't know, some things that you have learned through the loss of your dad that's drawn you closer to our heavenly Father.
MATT
The first one I would say is, Hebrews chapter 12, “Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses,” and I think those are people who have gone before us, right? People that someday we will enjoy heaven and eternity with. And I used to know that verse and, “Okay. Yeah. That's cool.” Well, now I recognize one of the faces in that crowd and, you know, there are people who are being martyred for their faith and stuff like that. And I just want to, I just want to bless them and have it right. But when I see my dad or when I have an opportunity to share my story in heaven, especially the story of what I've done since, since he went to be with Jesus, I want it to be a great story, not for my glory, but for the Lord's.
MATT
But like, I just want to live to where Jesus and my dad would be proud of me. I remember when he was, when he was coming down the end, I think I had a vision. I don't remember if it was a dream at night or if it was just something that I vividly saw. But, I've been a part of a couple championship teams over the years. And the moment when you, when you hit the winning shot or make the basket or whatever, and you rush the court and you're all jumping around and stuff like that. I had this picture, this vision of, and I think it was of my dad, but I was seeing it first person and, but there was, and I didn't really recognize any of the people, but there was this moment of getting in, and all these people were like, yeah, you know. And yeah, you are like, you see the end of Top Gun, you know, when they’re on the aircraft carrier and they see each other, and they, like, scream, like, you know, stuff like that. Oh yeah. You know.
DANIEL
Yeah.
MATT
And it's this huge celebration. And then and Jesus is there. But he's kind of letting the people kind of have their moment. And then all of a sudden the crowd parts and I or the main character in that vision, makes eye contact with Jesus and just, oh, man, that hug, you know, like, I don't know. I don't know if I mean, talking about my dad running into the arms of Jesus. Maybe it was that, I don't know. But that picture flavor's how I live. Like, I long for that moment. I confess I'm still probably more afraid of the moment of death or the journey to death than I am excited for that moment. Being younger and all that, I still feel like I've got a lot of life to live.
MATT
But boy, walking with my dad through that and that picture of that moment, I can't wait. And it just, it flavors. Like it gives me an eternal perspective on the things that I do. And it's not perfect and it's not, 24/7. I confess, like, I get earthly, I get fleshly, but man, that has just, that, you know, picture is the goal. I can't wait for it. And obviously now when that's me, my dad is going to be one of those first people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And it's going to be special. And so like, I want to live a life worthy to celebrate that moment.
DANIEL
My dad. I think I'm pretty confident in this, that he was. When I think about how important a relationship with God is, my dad is the first person that taught me that. And the crazy thing, Matt, is he didn't use words to teach me that. He used, he did it by example. He did it by the way he interacted. He in his life was about, you know, his mom was very. If you met my grandma, it would take you, it would take her less than…If within five minutes she didn't ask you if you knew Jesus, something was wrong. And that's similar to how my dad was. He was like he cared about people. He wanted people to be pointed to Jesus.
DANIEL
So even after my dad's death, he continually is pointing me to Jesus. Similar what you just talked about. You know, his life is pointing me towards the Father. And one thing that I think about a lot after his death, you know, he kind of. I wish I would have spent more time with him knowing, you know, in the final months, but I kind of did. But he kind of got annoyed that I was with. I'd go downstairs and sit with him and I was like, “Hey, dad, how's it going?” “I'm good.” And then he kind of like, not shaken up, but I realized, “Oh, he doesn't want to be bothered right now.” You know why? He's praying.
DANIEL
And when we cleaned out the basement, we started to clean up the basement. And there's still work to be done there. But he had these lists of people, and they were prayer lists. So we saw all these names. I took pictures of some of these people and, you know, people who had just come to our church the within the last year. Their names are on this list. If he met you, he wrote down your name and I can and I so I found this one list. And I said to my mom, I said, “Who are these people?” And she looked at it and she was just confused. She couldn't think of who they were. It took her about 60 seconds and then she went, “Oh, you know, these are the people that came and repaired our fireplace when we had a fire.” And you only met them for what? For that one day. But my dad wrote down their names and didn't know if they knew Jesus or not, but he wanted to pray for them. And that's the legacy that I think my dad left as he pointed me to the Lord how important it was to be in relationship with him, with the Lord. Through prayer, through devotion, and the way that you interact with others. And to this day, my dad is having an impact, not only my life, all his grandchildren, his lives, my two sisters life, my mom's life still. But he has an impact in the way. You know what? When I'm able to talk, speak into churches and other people's lives, know that my dad's impact is there.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
It's there. And because his ultimate goal was to glorify the Father and to point others to Jesus. And that's why I say, long live the memories of our dads.
MATT
Yeah.
DANIEL
Because they pointed us to Jesus. And you and I are here, Matt, because of not only our dads, our moms, our grandparents, and those who have lived the faith well and pass that on well. Pointed everyone to Jesus and hopefully this podcast was, you know, just a couple dudes.
DANIEL
We're nothing special but just talking about our dads. Hopefully, for our listeners, there was something encouraging to you guys, and in processing that. And you know what, Matt and I are here. We're just a couple guys. And if you want to reach out we’re, our emails there, you can. We'd love to have a conversation if that's what you need or if you need just one or just anyone.
DANIEL
Just surround yourself with people who enter that, that circle. Be there to, to mourn with you. So, Matt, we made it through. We actually did okay. We both kind of thought maybe we wouldn’t make it through. But thank you for talking about your dad and being on this podcast.
MATT
Love you bro.
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